More lies against the Holy Bible
Quennel Gale
Recently Sam Shamoun and Jochen Katz wrote a refutation of Osama Abdallah’s claim dealing with “vagina being mentioned in Song of Songs”. Osama Abdallah seems to believe that if a person’s sexual organ is mentioned in a text then it must be deemed as pornographic. For the western reader we would wonder “why would he be so quick to believe such nonsense”? It should be noted that Mr. Abdallah is a Muslim and we all know what following Islam produces, i.e. intellectual bankruptcy, blood thirst and violent, bomb making murderers, anti-Jewish and anti-Christian. Hence, because Song of Songs is found in the Hebrew Old Testament instead of the Arabic Quran, Mr. Abdallah will do anything in his power to bring venomous attacks against it in the name of Islam. Since this argument is a favorite of Mr. Abdallah, any response was bound to be addressed quickly on his part. As you can see he was quick to respond to this refutation on his website here. The problem for Mr. Abdallah’s “pornography argument” is that it can be forcefully used to destroy Islam more than what he could ever do against the Bible.
I tried being nice to him, hoping that he would wake up from his self-delusional foolishness but he continued in his attacks so now we will have to destroy him soundly. We will also bring very incriminating quotes against Islam and his self-proclaimed prophet Muhammad. We will also expose Osama Abdallah as a chronic liar and put this issue to rest once and for all.
My
rebuttal to Shamoun's and Katz' "Osama's Dirty
Lies" absurd and self-refuting article:
This article is a
refutation to Sam Shamoun's and Jochen
Katz' absurd article that is located at: http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/dirty_lies.htm.
The reader will shortly see, how these two jokers have proven the filth
and sick pornography in their gospel of porn; the book of women's vaginas and
breasts taste like "wine".
The reader will shortly
see how I am so thankful to the two of them for admitting that their bible is
indeed a sick book!
In reading the refutation of “Osama’s Dirty Lies” found at the link on “Answering-Islam”, there isn’t any support for Osama’s conclusion. Instead we will prove how Osama Abdallah is sick and has to resort to using information not found in the Bible to arrive at his conclusion.
They wrote:
Osama's Dirty Lies
Trying so desperately to hit below the belt ...
Osama Abdallah announced the following on his site:
07/21/2005- I added an audio
file that I captured from the documentary film, "Sex
in the Bible", that proves from the Hebrew language experts'
commentaries that the Bible did say that women's vaginas taste like
"wine", to the article X-Rated Pornography in
the Bible. This will silence all of the noise and the
intentional and unethical accusations that were made by Sam Shamoun
and Quennel Gale of the "Answering Islam"
team regarding me being a "liar". They knew I was telling the
Truth, but they tried to play deceptive games with the reader. Now the
game is over, and their questionable ethics are exposed. (Source)
Eager to find out how
Osama "silenced" us this time, we listened to the audio clip. What
did we find? After citing the specific text so often abused by Osama (see our earlier rebuttal), the female narrator comments:
... But when we look
closely at the Hebrew, we find out that the anatomy that he is describing MAY
BE in fact a bit lower than the belly button.
That's it. The audio clip
trumpeted by Osama contains a claim. Wow! No proof. No reasoning. No evidence
to support the claim. Simply a claim.
Will anyone in his right
mind believe that this is to be counted as the evidence supporting
Osama’s perverted interpretations? This is merely the speculation of an unnamed
commentator who says that the Hebrew MAY BE speaking of something a bit lower
than the belly button. Again: What is her proof?
My
response:
Notice,
first of all, how the cowards unlinked to both my X-Rated Pornography in the Bible
article and to the audio file. They know well that if the reader,
or listener in this case, read and listened to my evidence, then the facts and
the Truth would become irrefutable and crystal clear. What they did
instead was to minimize the reader's access to my sources and to deceive
him/her into their false perceptions.
This team of clowns,
especially Sam Shamoun, is notorious in doing
this. I have raised this issue in a number of my rebuttals already
before.
Notice their lie:
"This is merely the speculation of an unnamed commentator
who says that the Hebrew MAY BE speaking of something a bit lower than the
belly button. Again: What is her proof?"
Osama Abdallah misses the entire argument in his response here. First he introduces an irrelevant point about “the authors not linking to his X-Rated Pornography in the Bible Article” even though on this very same article Osama Abdallah himself doesn’t link to my article answering and refuting this very article here. In fact he hasn’t been able to refute my rebuttal to his argument ever since I put it on my website over 2 years ago. So I find it hardly credible for him to demand that Katz and Shamoun link to his article, even though they did at the very beginning of the article:
07/21/2005- I added an audio file that I captured from the documentary film, "Sex in the Bible", that proves from the Hebrew language experts' commentaries that the Bible did say that women's vaginas taste like "wine", to the article X-Rated Pornography in the Bible. This will silence all of the noise and the intentional and unethical accusations that were made by Sam Shamoun and Quennel Gale of the "Answering Islam" team regarding me being a "liar". They knew I was telling the Truth, but they tried to play deceptive games with the reader. Now the game is over, and their questionable ethics are exposed. (Source)
Notice the (Source) above, where one can see what date Osama uploaded the article to his site, THE NAME OF THE ARTICLE, as well as the same description of what he said about this particular article on his main page. Apparently Mr. Abdallah didn’t read to well, which is something he rarely does anyway. However Osama failed to attack the argument presented by Shamoun and Katz:
(Carole Fountaine)... But
when we look closely at the Hebrew, we
find out that the anatomy that he is describing MAY BE in fact a bit lower than
the belly button.
That's it. The audio clip
trumpeted by Osama contains a claim. Wow! No proof. No reasoning. No evidence
to support the claim. Simply a claim.
The whole point of the response was “Osama didn’t present evidence dealing with the Hebrew word for ‘vagina’ in this passage”. What does Mr. Abdallah do? He ignores this fact and claims this:
Notice their lie:
"This is merely the speculation of an unnamed commentator
who says that the Hebrew MAY BE speaking of something a bit lower than the
belly button. Again: What is her proof?"
He focuses on the identity of the commentator, WHICH IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED. The discussion of the matter wasn’t “what’s the name of the commentator” but “whether this passage mentions the word “vagina” for belly, etc.
Only you liars say she was unnamed!
I did put in the article,
which you purposely unlinked, the reference to the Theology Professor that
mentioned this. Here is her info that was displayed on TV:
Carole Fountaine
Professor of Biblical Studies
Andover-Newton Theological School
This what was displayed on the screen of the
documentary film. So not only you invented a new lie by saying she is
"unnamed", but you also denied the fact that:
1- She is a Theology Professor - much more knowledgeable than you
two weasels and the real liars.
As you can see, Osama Abdallah commits the fallacy of red herring by calling Shamoun and Katz liars NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE WRONG IN CLAIMING THE HEBREW WORD FOR ‘VAGINA’ ISN’T PRESENT but because they said Ms. Fountaine was unnamed. What Osama Abdallah also fails to realize is that just because Ms. Fountaine is a Professor of Biblical Studies doesn’t mean that she is an expert on Hebrew in this case or that her conclusion is correct. Osama has done nothing more than commit the fallacy of “appealing to authority”. I myself can easily go to theology school and get my degree in Biblical theology and it would mean nothing if I state something that isn’t based on the Bible or is just plain wrong. Also I want to ask Osama Abdallah this:
1. If believing
in Scholars are a basis for your acceptance of a religious conclusion:
Then
2. Why do you follow Muhammad, who wasn’t
a scholar, who was unlearned and wasn’t a theological professor?
Also what Mr. Abdallah fails to realize is that he isn’t as knowledgeable as he assumes about Mr. Shamoun and Mr. Katz. Both are bilingual (Mr. Shamoun is Assyrian whose descendants spoke the very language of Jesus himself, while Mr. Katz speaks German and has degrees in both Hebrew and NT Greek). Osama Abdallah would have you to believe that both of these apologists are stupid laymen with no knowledge of the Bible. Hence, both, particularly Mr. Katz are able to speak on this issue irregardless of whether they are theology professors. If all of us went and got our theology degrees tomorrow, it wouldn’t change Mr. Abdallah and his stance on Christianity. He would still lie and make up false claims to propagate Islam as he does today. Also I want to ask Mr. Abdallah this:
1. If Ms. Fountaine is the basis for your acceptance of this
argument:
Then
2. Why didn’t she say this description
was pornographic?
If Osama tells us “oh well she didn’t want to be offensive etc,” this doesn’t help either because he doesn’t know her mind or is only assuming what he can’t prove in the first place. In other words ladies and gentlemen, HE IS DOING NOTHING MORE THAN OFFERING HIS UNSUBSTANTIATED OPINION ON THIS ISSUE.
2- She spoke on the behalf of her school and, more
specifically, her theology department, when she said: "The lover says that
his beloved's naval is like a goblet of wine, but when we look closely at the Hebrew, we find out that the anatomy that he is describing, may
be in fact a bit lower than the belly button."
Ms. Fountaine wasn’t speaking on behalf of her school at all. WHERE EXACTLY DID SHE SAY “I SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MY SCHOOL”? Again we have Osama Abdallah adding unsubstantiated claims to his argument for he knows that if he can make it sound better than what it actually is, the reader would somehow accept this twisted conclusion.
The "we" here is Carole Fountaine
and her team of department of theologians!
The "we" here of course includes everyone from the audience, but to be more specific, it includes her team of theologians, because they did the research and studied the Hebrew and discovered the pornography in this pornographic verse.
Notice how “we” includes the theologians EVEN THOUGH THE ONLY ONE MENTIONED WAS CAROLE FOUNTAINE AND NO ONE ELSE. But wait, Osama recognizes the fact that “we” could just be referring to the audience also! But then again it’s much easier TO ASSUME that this is the sole word of these theologians. As for the Hebrew, we will actually expose Mr. Abdallah for his lack of knowledge on this verse and show once and for all that he is totally clueless when it comes to debating against the religion of Christianity.
The lady smiled when she
said that. This proves:
(a)- She didn't want to be graphic by saying vagina!
(b)- The word "may be" that the two weasels
purposely misinterpreted, is actually a CONFIRMATION
and not a doubt! She was trying to be polite and proper in her
words. Plus the words "may be" are commonly used in our
everyday language, and we do sometimes use them as confirmations.
(c)- If one listens to her voice tone in the audio file, then he/she will see it
clearly.
"May
be you ought to do this!" is another way of
saying "You should really do this!"
It's a confirmation and not a doubt!
Osama then continues by saying “Oh she smiled when she said this”. So this proves his argument! LOL! So basically if we want to prove something is true in religion
Do you see how stupid this sounds! But wait, Osama left us a backdoor into exposing his stupidity. Earlier he said:
but to be more specific, it includes her team of theologians, because they did the research and studied the Hebrew and discovered the pornography in this pornographic verse.
So Osama thinks that Ms. Fountaine’s conclusions are correct because she and her imaginary team of theologians studied the Hebrew text to find this. So let’s show you the Hebrew text of the passage in question:
shârerękh 'aggan hassahar 'al-yechsar hammâzegh bithnękh `aręmath chithiym sughâh bashoshanniym: Song of Songs 7:3
If Ms. Fountaine wanted to validate Osama Abdallah’s theory then we should be able to go directly to the Hebrew text and find THE WORD “VAGINA” in the passage. The word in question is “Sharekh” or “shorer”, and this word is what Ms. Fountaine and her staff would be commenting on to reach their conclusion. So the million dollar question is:
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THIS WORD “Sharekh” or “shorer” in Song of
Songs 7:2-3?
Notice that Osama Abdallah doesn’t even know the word in question, which is why he never mentions it nor in fact does Ms. Fountaine, his esteemed scholar of theology. In fact, I challenged Osama Abdallah over a year ago to “tell us what the Hebrew word for vagina is”? He could never ever give me an answer. Why? Because he doesn’t know it, and apparently neither does Ms. Fountaine and her imaginary Hebrew scholars for that point. Is “Sharekh” or “shorer” the Hebrew word for “vagina”?
shorer {sho'-rer}
navel, umbilical cord
(Source: BlueLetter Bible [using in turn The
Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament])
The word which Osama Abdallah thinks is “vagina” is actually the word “navel” in Hebrew! Notice how Osama criticized Mr. Katz and Shamoun, in relationship to Ms. Fountaine being a theologian:
1- She is a Theology Professor - much more knowledgeable than you
two weasels and the real liars.
He is explicitly saying that “because she’s a recognized authority” on this issue what she says is true. So in turn we want to level the hammer on Osama by quoting The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament:
From A Hebrew and English
Lexicon of the Old Testament by Francis Brown, S.R. Driver, and Charles
Briggs, based on the lexicon of Wilhelm Gesenius.
Edited by Richard Whitaker (
It should be noted that this Lexicon IS CONSIDERED THE HIGHEST, FINEST AND MOST COMPREHENSIVE HEBREW LEXICON in the entire English language! Ms. Fountaine couldn’t even obtain her degree as a theologian without using this lexicon as a foundation! Anyone who ever wants to pursue their degree in OT studies has heard of this lexicon. All of these scholars are considered higher in authority as well as one of the basis of Biblical Hebrew study in all the western world. Oh, let’s not forget that this was provided by Princeton Theological Seminary, which is arguably the best Biblical Seminary in the world! How’s that for scholarly appeal eh? So to put it nicely in the words of Mr. Abdallah:
1- They are world-renown Theology scholars - much more
knowledgeable than you two weasels, and the real liars (Osama and Ms. Fountaine).
However, we will give Ms. Fountaine the benefit of the doubt since she, as a theologian, would obviously know that the word “shorer” isn’t the Hebrew word for vagina. Look at what the translations of the Bible rendered this word as:
"Your NAVEL
is like a round goblet Which never lacks mixed wine;
Your BELLY is like a heap of wheat
Fenced about with lilies." Song of Songs 7:2 NASB
"Your NAVEL
is a rounded bowl that never lacks mixed wine.
Your BELLY is a heap of wheat,
encircled with lilies." RSV
Both of these English translations of the Bible are considered very authoritative, with the NASB being the most literal translation available today. Notice the fact that the word “Shorer” which Osama claims is the word “vagina” is rendered as navel. This source here gives even more evidence:
2469 … (shrr). Assumed root of the following.
2469a … (shor) umbilical
cord (e.g. Ezk 16:4; Prov
3:8).
2469b … (shera) bracelet (Gen
24:22; Isa 3:19).
2469c … (sharir) sinew, muscle
(Job 40:16).
2469d … (sherirut),
… (sherirut)
stubbornness.
(Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, R. Laird Harris, Gleason L. Archer, Jr., Bruce K. Waltke [Moody Publishers; 2 Volumes edition, June 1, 1980], Volume II, p. 957)
Now let’s look at the verses in question here:
The word of the LORD came to me:
"Son of man, confront
Now we want to ask Osama Abdallah
this question. Does
Mr. Abdallah
is every kid (male/female) born with a “vagina” since this must be cut at
birth?
Mr. Abdallah, does your son have a vagina? Yes or no? Here is more:
My son, do not forget my law,
But let your heart keep my commands; For length of days and long life.
And peace they will add to you. Let not mercy and truth forsake you; Bind them
around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart, And so find favor
and high esteem In the sight of God and man. Trust in the LORD with all your
heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all
your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a]
your paths. Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from
evil. It will be health to your flesh,[b] (shorer) And strength[c] to
your bones. Prov. 3:1-8
Proverbs 3:8 Literally navel, figurative
of the body (Source)
Does Solomon have a vagina even though he is a man? Mr. Abdallah thinks so! This word, which is translated “flesh”, doesn’t have any reference to “vagina”. So Mr. Abdallah is your flesh a vagina? Notice how the Jewish translation of the Bible renders “shorer”:
Thy NAVEL
is like a round goblet, wherein no mingled wine is wanting;
thy BELLY is like a heap of wheat
set about with lilies. 7:3 Jewish Publication Society (JPS)
Notice how the Jewish translators, who are native Hebrew speakers, render this word. If Mr. Abdallah thinks that his theory is correct then he should have been able to back up what he claims with Hebrew references. How can you claim Ms Fountaine did a Hebrew works study when the very Hebrew you think she appealed to says “navel” and not “vagina” Mr. Abdallah? Did Ms. Fountaine explicitly say “shorer” means “vagina”? No. If she did she’d destroy her credibility as a professor since “shorer” isn’t the Hebrew word for “vagina”, something she would know very well.
Osama continues by saying:
Thank you for admitting that your pornographic bible is trash! (here is how you did it)
The two weasels have
charged me of being a liar and a pervert, despite all of the proofs that they
already knew above, for simply brining a quote from their gospel of porn. This obviously
proves the following:
1- They fully recognize the danger of pornography in their
gospel of porn.
2- They fully realize that such pornography only proves
that their bible is trash, or at least contains trash.
3- Them conveniently and falsely lashing back at me
only caused them to shoot themselves in the foot,
because they're basically now saying the following:
(a)- Osama Abdallah is a
pervert and a liar for inserting such sick lies and porn into our "Holy
Bible".
(b)- Such sick pornography can not exist in our
"Holy Book"
(c)- Osama is desperate (as ironically their title says)
and he is hopelessly trying to prove the lie of pornography in the Bible.
First off, Shamoun and Katz didn’t admit that the Bible is pornographic, they were right to charge Osama as being a liar since the Hebrew word for “vagina” isn’t “shorer”. In fact we will tell you the Hebrew word for “vagina” in just a bit and then show to you just how stupid and foolish Osama Abdallah actually is! He continues by saying:
Well too bad for the
weasels, Osama Abdallah is neither desperate, nor did
he invent any lie against the gospel of porn. Osama
Abdallah simply quoted the the
Professor who was representing the
So to accuse me of being
a liar is basically accusing them of being liars also. And I don't think
anyone would take two weasels' and real liars' words over professionals in
theology who know far more about Hebrew than them.
Checkmate!
So basically Osama Abdallah is trying to save face here. He basically says “I was basically quoting a professor”, even though he didn’t verify whether what the professor said was true or not. Also, we must reiterate again to Mr. Abdallah, Mr. Katz does have degree certificates in Hebrew and Greek, so he is qualified to speak on these issues and would obviously recognize stupidity on Osama’s part in this argument. Also I want to ask Osama these questions:
As for checkmate, we present this for Osama Abdallah. His favorite Bible is the NIV translation. Since he loves appealing to this Bible and using it against Christianity as shown here:
(Just who were the real authors of the Bible? ; Found on www.answering-christianity.com)
We want to show him this from the NIV publishers themselves:
The NIV is based on the most reliable Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.
A translation team of more than 100 evangelical Bible scholars from many
different denominations, using four levels of committee review, worked for 13
years before the complete Bible was released in 1978. These scholars came from
the
OPERATING FROM THE CONVICTION THAT THE BIBLE IS THE INSPIRED AND WHOLLY RELIABLE WORD OF GOD, the translators wanted to faithfully reproduce what the original Scripture writers wrote, in language that people could read and understand without difficulty. They were - and are - committed to the AUTHORITY AND INFALLIBILITY OF THE BIBLE. The NIV has become the bestselling translation of the Bible, with more than 100 million copies in print. (NIV ONLINE LETTER)
Notice what these 100 Bible scholars said when dealing with Song of Songs 7:2,3:
Your navel (shorer) is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Song of Songs 7:2 NIV
NIV, which is based on the most reliable Hebrew text and translated by over 100 scholars’ claims that “shorer” isn’t “vagina” but “navel”:
Checkmate!
Either way Mr. Abdallah is fighting a losing battle. He can’t appeal to Ms. Fountaine to validate his argument since what she claims is not only contradicted by every Hebrew source known to man but by Bible translations that were translated by over 100 scholars! What is even more foolish is the fact that Mr. Abdallah doesn’t pay attention to the verse itself:
Your navel (shorer) is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Song of Songs 7:2 NIV
Since he believes that the word “navel” is the word “vagina” We want to educate him on this fact that:
1. A vagina isn't round like a goblet, which apparently means that Mr. Abdallah has never seen a vagina!
Here is the definition of a goblet:
Goblet:
1 archaic
: a bowl-shaped
drinking vessel without handles
2 : a drinking vessel (as of glass) with a foot and stem --
compare TUMBLER (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)
For those who don’t know what a “goblet” is, this word
describes something that is shaped like a bowel. It is round, etc. A Vagina
isn’t shaped like a bowel, but a navel is! Mr. Abdallah,
if your wife’s vagina looks like this then maybe she needs some type of
corrective surgery. If vagina is supposed to be present instead of navel then:
1. It would look like a two handled
ring!
2. It would be shaped like a bowel!
3. Every time you see someone with a bowel with handles, like a bucket in
modern times, Osama would think that it’s a vagina!!
Apparently Mr. Abdallah has been spending too much time reading Islamic science books, where Suns set in the sea or where non-Muslims have more intestines than Muslims. This would probably explain why he thinks that a vagina looks like a bowl! How hilarious!
Does a vagina look like a bowl?
Mr. Abdallah thinks so. So:
1. When you cook food in bowels are you cooking
them in vaginas? According to Mr. Abdallah you are.
2. If you carry things in a bowel are you carrying it in a vagina? According to
Mr. Abdallah you are.
3. If Mr. Abdallah has ever eaten soup did he eat it
from a vagina? According to his theory yes.
This makes no sense whatsoever. A navel would be round like a goblet especially if it is poking out. Especially when a woman is wearing a ring in her navel! A Vagina can never resemble a bowl!
Osama thinks that “navel
round like a goblet” is a vagina that looks like a bowl!
What more can we say about this issue? It is a dead issue propagated by an
ignorant apologist who can’t distinguish the anatomy of a woman’s body part let
alone a Semitic language he is totally unfamiliar in! Even if Ms. Fountaine claimed that “shorer” is the Hebrew word for “vagina her commentary must
be verified historically and through the Hebrew text of the Bible. If she
claims that the Hebrew word is “vagina” when it is the word “navel” then her
commentary is wrong and must be rejected. How can Osama call Shamoun and Katz a liar when he prescribes to a theory not
even verified by the text he uses in his defense! Osama can you do these
things:
1.
Show us
that the Hebrew word in question is vagina based on historical usage?
2.
Prove
that we lied and that the word “navel” has never meant what it says but always
meant “vagina?
3.
Show us
where vaginas look like bowels.
He continues by saying:
They
wrote:
Where is the lexical data
supporting her claim?
My
response:
In your butt! :-)
They
wrote:
What sources did she
quote to prove her assertion? Absolutely nothing. After all is said and done,
Osama is not even a millimeter closer to giving evidence for the perverted
interpretation of the text that has become his obsession.
My
response:
I love it when you say
"perverted interpretation". Keep attacking me, because these
are more bullets that you keep shooting yourself with in the foot, as I clearly
demonstrated.
When pressed for the lexical data to
support what Ms. Fountaine said, the best Mr. Abdallah could do was respond “in your butt”? If you read
his paper further down, in response to the usage of “sexual organs” in the Quran, Osama Abdallah basically
rejects what both Mr. Katz and Shamoun writes by just
saying the Arabic word for vagina is:
"Mah'bal" in
Arabic is the exact word for "vagina" or "sexual
organ" as the liars put it.
Where in the Noble Quran was the word
"mah'bal" used?
Notice that he doesn’t care about
the fact that Mr. Shamoun and Katz got their
information from Islamic sources or scholars. He rejects this information
outright by saying, the explicit word isn’t there in the Quran
but he wants Christians to accept his claims based on Ms. Fountaine,
when SHE DOESN’T EXPLICITLY SAY “VAGINA” ALSO!
WHAT IS THE
HEBREW WORD FOR VAGINA?
It should be noted that I did challenge Mr. Abdallah to tell us the Hebrew word for “vagina” for some time and, unlike the ease with which he was able to show what the Quranic word for this was, the best he could do was appeal to Ms. Fountaine to argue that “because she’s a scholar her conclusion is valid”. Or in other words HE DOESN’T KNOW THE HEBREW WORD FOR VAGINA! If he truly did, then he would have easily been able to find it long time ago and say “okay the Hebrew word is ‘this’ and this theologian verified it based on the Hebrew text.” However, I’ve known this word for a very long time but I refused to divulge it to Mr. Abdallah because I was so sure that he would continue to make a fool out of himself on this issue. So what is the Hebrew word for vagina? In an email sent to Rabbi Michael Skobac of Jews for Judaism (a favorite of Osama Abdallah and other Muslim Apologists) I posed this same question, even though I already knew this, but I just wanted to add extra verification for our readers:
-----
Original Message -----
From: Gale,
Quennel
To: toronto@jewsforjudaism.org
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:37 AM
Subject: Hi Need to ask you a very important
question
Hi,
What is the
Hebrew word for “vagina’? The reason I need to ask this is because a Muslim
apologists has been using Song of Songs 7:1-2 to claim the the
word “navel” is the same as the word vagina. Can you please answer this for me.
He is slandering the Tanekh and this needs to stop.
Thanks
HE RESPONDS
BY SAYING:
bs"d
their claim is absurd for a few reasons:
a) their translation is wrong...as far as i know, there is no biblical hebrew term for vagina, the more modern hebrew term is 'nartik'...navel is a far better translation here
b) the context certainly doesn't support their rendition...a woman is being praised for her exterior beauty in these passages...
As
you can see the Hebrew word for vagina isn’t “shorer”
but Nartik
In ancient biblical Hebrew, it would
be impossible to mention the word “vagina” in the Bible since there was no term
for it! However the Jews later on do have a term for vagina in Hebrew and it is
“nartik”! Now if Osama Abdallah
is such an expert on Hebrew like Ms. Fountaine, both
of them must know this! Even I knew this myself and I don’t have to go to
seminary school for a number of years just to learn this. This is very similar
to the fact that a non-Muslim doesn’t have to know Arabic to know that “Allah”
is the name of God in the Quran or that “tawhid” is used for strict monotheism in Islam. So to put
it eloquently in the words of Osama Abdallah:
"Nartik" in Hebrew is the exact word for "vagina" or "sexual organ" as the liars put it.
Where in the Holy Bible was the word "Nartik" used?
Also just for kicks, nartik isn’t round like a bowel or goblet. LOL! My dear reader as you can see, the Hebrew word for “vagina is “nartik”, not “shorer” as Osama claimed in his argument on pornography. Earlier, Mr. Abdallah criticized Mr. Katz by saying that he doesn’t know Hebrew but obviously Mr. Katz would know this for he has certificates in both Hebrew and Greek. Now if the Hebrew text said:
NARTIK 'aggan hassahar 'al-yechsar hammâzegh bithnękh `aręmath chithiym sughâh bashoshanniym: Song of Songs 7:3
It would mean:
Your vagina (nartik) is a rounded goblet (which is stupid to say the least, no vagina looks like a bowl) that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Song of Songs 7:2 NIV
Then Osama would have a point, however the scriptures say:
shârerękh 'aggan hassahar 'al-yechsar hammâzegh bithnękh `aręmath chithiym sughâh bashoshanniym: Song of Songs 7:3
Your navel (shorer) is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Song of Songs 7:2 NIV
Any translation of the Bible,
including the most anti-Christian translations of the Bible, has never rendered
“shorer” to mean vagina, but navel.
"Your NAVEL is like a round goblet Which never lacks mixed wine; Your BELLY is like a heap of wheat Fenced about with lilies." Song of Songs 7:2 NASB
"Your NAVEL is a rounded bowl that never lacks mixed wine. Your BELLY is a heap of wheat, encircled with lilies." RSV
Your NAVEL is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. NIV
Your NAVEL is as delicious as a goblet filled with wine. Your BELLY is lovely, like a heap of wheat set about with lilies. NLT
Thy NAVEL is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy BELLY is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies. KJV
Your NAVEL is like a beautiful glass full of wine. Your STOMACH is like gathered grain with lilies around it. NLV
Your NAVEL is a rounded bowl; it never lacks mixed wine. Your waist[1] is a mound of wheat surrounded by lilies. HCSB
Footnotes
1.
c 7:2
Or belly HCSB
Your NAVEL is a rounded bowl that never lacks mixed wine. Your BELLY is a heap of wheat, encircled with lilies. ESV
Your NAVEL is a wine glass filled to overflowing. Your body is full and slender like a bundle of wheat bound together by lilies. CEV
Your NAVEL is a rounded goblet; It lacks no blended beverage. Your waist is a heap of wheat Set about with lilies. NKJV
Thy NAVEL is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor; thy BELLY is like a heap of wheat set about with lilies. KJV21
Thy NAVEL is a round goblet, [which] wanteth not mixed wine; Thy BELLY a heap of wheat, set about with lilies; Darby
Your NAVEL is like a round bowl that always has mixed wine in it. Your waist is like a mound of wheat that is surrounded by lilies. NIRV
Your NAVEL is a rounded goblet that never lacks blendedwine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. NIV-UK
Do you see anywhere in the translations where “NAVEL” is the word “VAGINA”? No. Such stupidity on Osama’s part is embarrassing to say the least. If his theologians and scholars were objective and truthful then they should have shown from the Hebrew text where the word “navel” was actually the word “vagina”. Or in other words where “nartik” is present and not “shorer”!
Hey
Osama "Nartik" is the Hebrew word for
vagina not “shorer” in Song of Songs!
Now that
we have exposed Osama Abdallah as the uninformed
misfit that he is, we continue to examine his response to Shamoun
and Katz:
They wrote:
Yet, unlike Osama, we do
not have to twist the Quran to find evidence for
Allah's fascination with women's anatomies since he refers to their breasts and
vaginal areas:
"Surely for the godfearing awaits a place of security, gardens and
vineyards, and maidens of SWELLING BREASTS (Arabic- kawa'ib),
like of age, and a cup overflowing." S. 78:33 Arberry
(see also Dawood, Rodwell)
And (remember) her who
guarded her SEXUAL ORGAN (Arabic- farjahaa):
We breathed into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for
all people. S. 21:91
And Mary the daughter of
'Imran, who guarded her SEXUAL ORGAN (Arabic- farjahaa) and We breathed INTO IT of Our spirit;
and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His revelations,
and was one of the devout (servants). S. 66:12
In the Arabic there is no
need to speculate that this may be a euphemistic way of referring to something
"a bit lower than the belly button". There is no maybe here.
It is an absolutely clear and unambiguous word for the sexual organ.
For the evidence from
various sources, including Muslim commentators and scholars, demonstrating that
the word farj means the vagina in these
specific contexts please consult the article, The Birth Narratives of Jesus in the Quran.
If mentioning the vagina
explicitly or implicitly is disqualifying a text from being revelation from
God, then the Qur'an is clearly not from God. If this
is not a valid criterion, then what is Osama's point? If Osama thinks that
mentioning the vagina in any book makes it a text of sexual perversion (and
Osama has still not proven that it even is in the Bible), then it is Osama's
god and his prophet who are the perverts for producing such sexually explicit
texts.
My
response:
First of all, even in
your twisted translation above, the reader clearly sees that there is ABSOLUTELY
no pornographic in any of the Noble Verses above! A person doesn't have
to be over 18 with viewer discretion is advised to read the Noble Quran as it is the case with your gospel of porn.
Twisted Translation? Really? Osama
then proceeds to say:
Mary Guarded her chastity, not her "vagina"!
Notice that for Noble
Verses 21:91 and 66:12, the liars did not specify the translation
source. This is because they are the liars who twisted the
meaning of the Arabic word "Farj",
which means the woman's womb, and also means woman's
chastity.
Mary guarded her "chastity"
not her vagina in Noble Verse 21:91 above! She was
GOD-fearing and a virgin chaste woman. That's what the Noble Verse is
saying.
"Mah'bal" in
Arabic is the exact word for "vagina" or "sexual
organ" as the liars put it.
Where in the Noble Quran
was the word "mah'bal" used?
If this is all you can come up with, then you are soundly and hopelessly losing
your battle with me tonight. If Allah Almighty's Divine Claim about the Virgin
Mary getting pregnant even though she was never touched by any man
is pornography to you, then you are not only weasels, but you are total goofs!
First off, Osama Abdallah
has committed a very grave error and contradicted himself to an almost
laughable position. Remember earlier when he said to Mr. Katz and Mr. Shamoun, dealing with Ms. Fountaine
and her staff:
1- She is a Theology Professor - much more knowledgeable than you two weasels and the real liars.
So because Ms. Fountaine
was a scholar and authority on Christianity, her statement supersedes Katz and Shamoun (even though we’ve disproved this). However the
twisted translation which Osama complains about isn’t so twisted at all. And
guess what, they come from Islamic scholars and tafsirs.
Mahmoud M. Ayoub contrasts the birth narratives of the Gospel of Luke with that mentioned in the Quran. All bold and capital emphasis is ours:
"The language of this verse (author- Luke 1:35) is clearly circumspect. It implies no sexual union or divine generation of any kind. Furthermore, while Luke's description agrees both in form and spirit with the Qur'anic idea of the conception of Christ, the language of the Qur'an IS FAR MORE GRAPHIC AND OPEN TO INTERPRETATION." (Christian-Muslim Encounters, ed. Yvonne Yazbeck Haddad & Wadi Z. Haddad [University Press of Florida, 1995], p. 67)
He goes on to say:
"... Then of Mary He (author-allegedly God) continues: ‘And she who guarded well [lit. fortified] her chastity [lit. GENERATIVE ORGAN], and thus We breathed INTO HER of our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign [or miracle, 'Aya] for all beings’ (S. 21:90-91) ...
"In the second instance the Qur'an speaks of Mary as a righteous woman who lived in strict chastity and obedience to God: ‘And Mary daughter of 'Imran who guarded well her GENERATIVE ORGAN farjaha, and thus We breathed INTO HER of our spirit’ (S. 66:12). THE BOLD AND GRAPHIC STATEMENT APPEARS TO HAVE SHOCKED TRADITIONISTS AND COMMENTATORS, so that most of them tried to cover it up with different and FARFETCHED significations or glossed over it with out comment...
"Ibn Kathir interprets the phrase ‘guarded well her generative organ’ to mean: ‘safeguarded and protected it. Guarding well ihsan signifies chastity and high birth.’ He comments on the phrase, ‘and thus We breathed into it of our spirit’ thus ‘that is, through the angel Gabriel. This is because God sent him to her, and he took for her the form of a man of good stature (S. 19:17). God commanded him to breathe INTO THE BREAST OF HER CHEMISE. HIS BREATH WENT DOWN AND PENETRATED HER GENERATIVE ORGAN, AND THUS CAUSED HER TO CONCEIVE JESUS ...’" (Ibid.)
Finally:
"Abu Ja'far al-Tusi, the jurist doctor of the Shi'i community, as well as his well known disciple al-Tabarsi, read the words, ‘We breathed INTO IT’ literally. Al-Tusi says: ‘It has been held that Gabriel BREATHED INTO MARY'S GENERATIVE ORGAN then God created Christ in it’ ..." (Ibid., p. 68)
Ibn Kathir provides additional evidence for the very graphic and distasteful nature of the Quranic birth narratives. In his comments on S. 66:12, Ibn Kathir writes:
<And Maryam, the daughter of 'Imran who guarded her chastity (PRIVATE PART).> meaning who protected and purified her honor, by being chaste and free of immorality,
<And We breathed INTO IT (PRIVATE PART) through Our Ruh,> meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him TO BLOW into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb THROUGH HER PRIVATE PART; this is how 'Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here,
<And We breathed INTO IT through Our Ruh, and she testified to the truth of her Lords Kalimat, and His Kutub,> meaning His decree and His legislation. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Abridged, Volume 10, Surat At-Tagabun to the end of the Qur'an, pp. 75-76; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Ibn Kathir makes the following comments in reference to S. 19:22-23:
"Allah, the Exalted, informs about Maryam that when Jibril had spoken to her about what Allah said, she accepted the decree of Allah. Many scholars of the predecessors (Salaf) have mentioned that at this point the angel (who was Jibril) blew into the opening of her garment that she was wearing. Then the breath descended until it entered INTO HER VAGINA and she conceived by the leave of Allah." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 6, Surat Al-Isra', Verse 39 To the end of Surat Al-Mu'minun, first edition July 2000, p. 244; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Ibn Kathir's notes on S. 2:223 also help us to see the very graphic nature of the term farj:
<as Allah has ordained for you.>
this refers to Al-Farj (THE VAGINA), as Ibn 'Abbas, Mujahid and other scholars have stated. Therefore, anal sex is prohibited, as we will further emphasize afterwards, Allah willing ...
Ibn Jurayj (one of the reporters of the Hadith) said that Allah's Messengers said ...
((From the front or from behind, as long as it occurs IN THE FARJ (VAGINA).)) ...
Abu Bakr bin Ziyad Naysaburi reported that Isma'il bin Ruh said that he asked Malik bin Anas, "What do you say about having sex with women in the anus?" He said, "You are not an Arab? Does sex occur but in the place of pregnancy? Do it only IN THE FARJ (VAGINA)." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 1, Parts 1 and 2 (Surat Al-Fatihah to Verse 252 of Surat Al-Baqarah), first edition January 2000, pp. 618, 619, 622; bold and capital emphasis ours)
In responding to the Shia position regarding the permissibility of temporary marriages (mutah), this Sunni writer defines farj as:
I'arat al-Furuj (Loaning of Vaginas)
The Shi'ah books of fiqh carry a separate chapter entitled "I’arat al-Furuj." This could literally be translated as "The Loaning of Vaginas." ... (Dr. Ahmad 'Abdullah Salamah, Shi’ah Concept of Temporary Marriage (Mut’ah); online edition)
The scholars used to prove this
point are Ayoub, one of the most respected Islamic
scholars, as well as the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir! Notice this on Ibn Kathir:
Translated and abridged by a group
of scholars under the supervision of Sheikh Safiur-Rahman
Al-Mubarakpuri.
Click here for the
biography of the author, Hafiz Ibn Kathir
The
Qur'an is the revelation of Allah's Own Words for the
guidance of His creatures. Since the Qur'an is the
primary source of Islamic teachings, the correct understanding for the Qur'an is necessary for every Muslim. The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir IS THE MOST RENOWNED AND ACCEPTED explanation of the
Qur'an IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. In it one finds THE BEST
PRESENTATION of Ahadith, history, and scholarly
commentary…
Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim, which is
famous by the title Tafsir Ibn
Kathir, by Al-Hafiz. Abu Al-Fida'
'Imad Ad-Din Isma'il bin 'Umar bin Kathir Al-Qurashi Al-Busrawi (d. 774 H.), is the most popular interpretation of the Qur'an in the Arabic language, and THE MAJORITY OF THE
MUSLIMS CONSIDER IT TO BE THE BEST SOURCE BASED ON THE QURAN AND SUNNAH.
This Arabic work spans three thousand and two hundred pages in four volumes. To
cover all of the references, Ibn Kathir
has also collected some weak Ahadith and Israelitish stories. Some repetitions also occur in it, as
and when the topics required these.
As
Darussalam has made a policy to publish
only such works which are based on Qur'an and
authentic Ahadith we appointed a board of Islamic
scholars to summarize Tafsir Ibn
Kathir in the original Arabic language. Shaykh Abu Al-Ashbal Ahmad Shagif of Rabitah Al-'Alam Al-Islami, Makkah, and Shaykh Safi-ur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri,
Head of the Research Committee of Darussalam worked with a team of other
scholars for about two years on this project. We published this summarized
version in the Arabic language titled as Al-Misbah
Al-Murur fe Tahdhib Tafsir Ibn Kathir…
Abdul-Malik Mujahid
General Manager, Darussalam Publications
Riyadh, March 2000 (Source; emphasis ours)
So one of the twisted meanings comes from Ibn Kathir, who produced one of the most renowned and widely accepted Islamic commentaries in the world! In fact, Osama Abdallah is wrong for claiming that “farj” can’t be the word vagina when he says:
"Mah'bal" in
Arabic is the exact word for "vagina" or "sexual
organ" as the liars put it.
He apparently forgot about this:
Ibn Jurayj (one of the reporters of the Hadith) said that Allah's Messengers said ...
((From the front or from behind, as long as it occurs IN THE FARJ (VAGINA).)) ...
Abu Bakr bin Ziyad Naysaburi reported that Isma'il bin Ruh said that he
asked Malik bin Anas,
"What do you say about having sex with women in the anus?" He said,
"You are not an Arab? Does sex occur but in the place of pregnancy? Do
it only IN THE FARJ (VAGINA)."
It is obvious that the place of pregnancy IS THE VAGINA AND YET THE WORD “Mah’bal” isn’t present here. So Mr. Abdallah DOES THIS MEANS that your own false prophet was TWISTED AND WRONG AND A LIAR? He didn't use the word "mah'bal" for the place of pregnancy but the word “farj”! If you notice in his response, Mr. Abdallah does nothing to elaborate on the meaning of “farj” like we did with “shorer” and “nartik”. He just brushed it aside, called Shamoun and Katz liars and then proceeded to claim that the Arabic word for “vagina” is “mah’bal”! What he failed to tell you was that Muhammad, his companions and the scholars on Islam believed that the word farj, which Osama accused Shamoun and Katz of twisting, did mean what the Christians claimed!
Here is the final Muslim example showing that farj refers to the female organ:
Narrated Basrah:
A man from the Ansar called Basrah
said: I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found
her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet). The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: She will get the dower, for you
made her VAGINA (farj) lawful for you. The
child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according
to the version of al-Hasan). The version of Ibn AbusSari has: You people,
flog her, or said: inflict hard punishment on him. (Sunan
of Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number
2126)
What more can we say? The “Mah’bal’” argument won’t help Mr. Abdallah.
Muhammad addressed this very word when he was dealing with anal intercourse!
Osama himself has a page on this very issue here. He uses the
exact verse Surah 2:223 that Ibn
Kathir expounds on above! We post it again for your
readership:
<as Allah has ordained for you.>
this refers to Al-Farj (THE VAGINA), as Ibn 'Abbas, Mujahid and other scholars have stated. Therefore, anal sex is prohibited, as we will further emphasize afterwards, Allah willing ...
Ibn Jurayj (one of the reporters of the Hadith) said that Allah's Messengers said ...
((From the front or from behind, as long as it occurs IN THE FARJ (VAGINA).)) ...
Abu Bakr bin Ziyad Naysaburi reported that Isma'il bin Ruh said that he asked Malik bin Anas, "What do you say about having sex with women in the anus?" He said, "You are not an Arab? Does sex occur but in the place of pregnancy? Do it only IN THE FARJ (VAGINA)." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume 1, Parts 1 and 2 (Surat Al-Fatihah to Verse 252 of Surat Al-Baqarah), first edition January 2000, pp. 618, 619, 622; bold and capital emphasis ours)
Now notice on Osama’s page, which is
so nicely addressed to me, says:
It's quite ironic that the Christian team of "Answering Islam" claim that Islam allows and even promotes Anal sex between the husband and the wife. There is a clown among them named Quennel Gale who used this argument in several of his arguments. This paper will expose this cheap lie from this dumb team (I apologize to the reader), and will once again, put Islam on the highest rank of Truth.
Anal sex, or sex from the rear end of the wife is not allowed in Islam. Let us look at the following Noble Verse from the Noble Quran:
"Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear God. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe. (The Noble Quran, 2:223)"
This Noble Verse was clarified in details through the Sayings (Hadiths) of our beloved Prophet peace be upon him. Let us look at some of them:
"Narrated Jabir: Jews used to say: 'If one has sexual intercourse with his wife from the back [The vagina as clearly shown below], then she will deliver a squint-eyed child.' So this Verse was revealed:-- 'Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth when or how you will.' (2.223) (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (peace be upon him)), Number 51)" (Source)
Should I laugh or cry? In his most
recent rebuttal Osama claims:
"Mah'bal" in
Arabic is the exact word for "vagina" or "sexual
organ" as the liars put it.
Where in the Noble Quran
was the word "mah'bal" used?
Then he contradicts himself when he
says above:
"Narrated Jabir: Jews used to say: 'If one has sexual
intercourse with his wife from the back [The vagina as clearly shown below], then she will
deliver a squint-eyed child.' So this Verse was revealed:-- 'Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth
when or how you will.' (2.223) (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60,
Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (peace be upon him)), Number 51)"
He even uses Ibn Kathir, which discloses the fact that “farj” is the word vagina! He even says it himself - [The vagina as clearly shown below], and now he gets amnesia and then claims that no it is mah’bal! We don’t disagree that Mahbal is the word for vagina but that “farj”, which he didn’t make any effort to address (now you know why) IS A WORD THAT WAS UNDERSTOOD BY MUHAMMAD, HIS COMPANIONS AND THE TAFSIRS TO BE EQUIVALENT TO THE SAME THING. Look at this list for words equivalent to male and female body parts
Male: Penis = Cock
Female: Vagina = Couchie
Now if I
write a sentence using “cock” or “couchie” it would
be immediately known to refer to male and female sexual organs. I would look
stupid if I said no this is wrong for saying that these didn’t refer to the
sexual organs just because “penis & vagina” wasn’t mentioned! This is
exactly what Osama Abdallah is doing with his
rebuttal.
In Islam
“Farj” = Vagina
Osama
agreed in an earlier article and then later contradicted himself by trying to
claim that only “mahbal” means “vagina”. He can’t
even lie straight and he contradicts his own prophet and his companions!! AND
HE CLAIMS KATZ AND SHAMOUN WROTE A SELF-REFUTING ARTICLE? LOL! He says:
You might have a little
bit stronger position with the "big breasted"
maidens in
Show me where in the Noble Quran does it
say anything like this.
Notice he agrees that Katz and Shamoun have a stronger point on “big breasted” maidens. So
how does he respond? HE JUST SAYS IT ISN’T PORNOGRAPHIC AND THAT’S IT! Why
exactly is mentioning one part of a female’s body parts porn and the other part
isn’t? Osama doesn’t tell us. This exposes his double standard on this
argument. In fact to show you just how stupid he really is, notice how he does
say big breasts are pornographic when dealing with the Bible:
1- X-Rated Pornography in the Bible:
The Bible has some really weird things in it that you would really be ashamed to even share with your own little kids!. It teaches you to fantasize about women's breasts and vaginas. It also teaches you to sleep with your own sister!.
A quick answer to the Christian folks who claim that the "Song of Songs" book in the Bible is talking about a husband and a wife: As you will see below in the article, the book is not talking about a husband and a wife. It's talking about two lovers. But even if it was talking about a husband and a wife, then wouldn't you agree with me that exposing your wife's privates to the world is pornography by itself?
What is the
spiritual point and wisdom from having pornography in the Bible? How is
it supposed to be GOD Almighty's True Living Words? (http://www.answering-christianity.com/x_rated.htm)
Look at Mr. Abdallah’s stupidity here! He claims on his pornography page that IT IS PORN TO MENTION WOMEN’S BREAST! But oh wait! Now this liar is saying that:
You might have a little
bit stronger position with the "big breasted"
maidens in
So which one is it? Is it porn to mention breast or is it not porn to mention breast? Osama seems to change his mind every article thereby contradicting himself! If he claims that it isn’t porn to mention breast in the Bible then he is refuting his very own article regarding the Bible being pornographic! If he agrees that it is porn then his Quran would be guilty of the very same thing he accuses “Song of Solomon” of, namely being a filthy, perverted porno! Notice how he explains this away by saying that:
Allah Almighty never Said
that they shall suck the males' cocks as the
gospel of porn says (see the verses below), and cum (as the christian horny whores most of them lose their virginities
to their boyfriends without marriage, and they wear bikinis where they expose
99% of their cheap and unchaste bodies to the public do today) with a
never-tasted before, wine-tasting cum.
So in other words it is porn in the Bible BECAUSE OF PEOPLE’S ACTIONS WHICH HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP ON THE BIBLE WHATSOEVER! RED HERRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG! Also wearing bikinis? Where exactly is this considered pornographic? In American culture and western culture, bikinis aren’t considered vulgar as they would be in ARAB AND PALESTINIAN CULTURE! Oh let’s show you just how stupid Osama Abdallah is in defending Muhammad and his marriage to Aisha at 9. He claims that Islam bashers love using this point to embarrass Islam but he explained it on his site as “it was a norm for the culture of that time”. From his link here we quote:
Every time the Muslims talk about Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him to the anti-Islamic, the anti-Islamic use Muhammad's marriage with a girl named Aisha as a point against Islam. They claim that since Muhammad was in his 50's and Aisha was only 9 years old, then its ok to call him a "Child Molester":
Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six
(years). We went to
Notice here that Aisha's mother and the Muslim women back then were ok with her marriage. It was part of the Arab custom and still is in many of the Muslim and non-Muslim countries today for girls to marry at a very young age. When a girl's body starts showing up (her breasts and her height and physical size), then she would be ready for marriage. This is further elaborated on in the "The Middle Eastern and other Cultures" and "What about Aisha's parents (mon and dad), are they too "Child Molesters"?" and "The life span 1400 years ago was very short" sections below in this article.
The "child molester" charge is a terrible unfair attack on Islam because it doesn't apply to our beloved prophet in anyway! - http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm
So it is okay for Muslims to marry girls at very young ages just because IT WAS A PART OF ARAB CULTURE, EVEN TILL THIS TIME, AND NOBODY PROTESTED TO THIS MARRIAGE. According to Mr. Abdallah, to attack Muhammad as a “child molester” is wrong and unfair. So basically Osama sums it up perfectly when he says:
We all need to understand
the culture that we are talking about. Life in the
Parents look at the girl's physical appearance when they prepare her for
marriage. They don't care about her age. She could be 9 or 13, it doesn't
matter.
So in the modern western culture “bikinis” aren’t considered necessarily pornographic and vulgar. If Osama wants to justify Muhammad’s child molestation, then how can he claim “bikinis” are wrong when they are part of a specific cultural norm while defending Muhammad’s marriage to a 9 year old child ON THE BASIS THAT IT WAS THE CULTURAL NORM OF THAT DAY? This argument just won’t work. Now the problem for Osama Abdallah is that unlike “bikinis”
Muhammad claimed to be a model for all mankind:
"he does not speak out of low desires. It is not but inspiration which is inspired" (Q. 53:3-4). The ONLY DIFFERENCE between the Qur'an and the Hadith is that whereas the former was revealed directly through Gabriel with the very letters that are embodied from Allah, the latter was revealed without letters and words."(Mishkat-ul-Masabih, the English translation, Book 1, the importance of the Qur'an and Hadith, P.2,3. )
"Thus, next to the Holy Qur'an the Hadith is the second source of the Islamic Law of social and personal behaviour, because THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE HOLY PROPHET ARE AS BINDING ON THE BELIEVERS AS THE COMMANDMENTS OF ALLAH. 'Whenever Allah and the Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a faithful man or woman to follow a course of their own choice (Q.33:36).'" (Sahih Muslim, Introduction to English translation, P. ii. ) The Hadith is to be FOLLOWED EXACTLY "for that which differs from the Hadith to the extent of a hair shall be given up." (Mishkat-ul-Masabih, the English translation, Book 1, the importance of the Qur'an and Hadith, P.5, Quoted from Malabudda Minhu, P.8 )
"A Muslim therefore stands in absolute need of a copy of the Qur'an AND A COPY OF THE HADITH for the guidance of his life" (ibid, P. 2,3.)
And,
"If
ye do love Allah, FOLLOW ME: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." S. 3:31
According to the Quran and Hadith, Muhammad is the perfect role model for all mankind. These above quotes just give a hint into this. Now if we are to base his marriage to Aisha on cultural norms then he can’t be a role model for all since his action is particular to only one culture. What is even more detrimental to Islam is that science has shown that early sex with females is actually more detrimental to the girl:
"Sexual contact between children and adults: A life course
perspective."
Browning, Christopher R; Laumann,
Edward O
Citation: American
Sociological Review, v62n4, pp.540-560,
Aug 1997
Number: 03374356 Features:
Table; Illustration; References
Copyright: American
Sociological Association 1997
"Research
interest in the long-term effects of sexual contact between female children and
adults has increased dramatically in the last two decades. Two sets of issues
have driven this enhanced attention. The first concerns the nature and extent
of the impact these experiences have on subsequent well-being in adulthood. Empirical research has offered evidence of
the severe and wide ranging effects of adult-child sex by documenting its
associations with a host of later "symptoms," such as low
self-esteem, depression, anxiety, and sexual dysfunction."
"In each
reduced model (Model 1), we see that adult-child sexual contact is
significantly associated with the outcome considered. Women
who experienced adult-child sexual contact were 1.6 times as likely to report
sexual desire dysfunction, 2.1 times as likely to report sexual response
dysfunction, 2.4 times as likely to report high dysfunction, 1.6 times as
likely to report low overall well being, 1.7 times as likely to report low
relationship satisfaction, and had more sexual activities that they found
appealing compared with those who had no coupled sexual experiences as
children. For every outcome except
high dysfunction and number of sex acts found appealing, the introduction of
the sexual trajectory variables (Models 2 and 3) renders the adult-child sexual
contact coefficient insignificant, indicating that the effects of adult-child
sex on adult outcomes are largely indirect, mediated through sexual trajectories."
Look what
happens when you follow Muhammad’s example! Trying to hide behind cultural norm
only shows that Osama can’t defend Muhammad’s vile actions. Since he loves
science so much we wonder what will he say about this? Even the United Nations
has shown that Muhammad’s perfect example is, well, not so perfect:
"HARMFUL TRADITIONAL PRACTICES AFFECTING THE
HEALTH OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN"
"An
appraisal of harmful traditional practices and their effects on women and the
girl child.
Traditional cultural
practices reflect values and beliefs held by members of a community for periods
often spanning generations. Every social grouping in the world has specific
traditional cultural practices and beliefs, some of which are beneficial to all
members, while others are harmful to a
specific group, such as women. These harmful traditional practices include
female genital mutilation (FGM); forced feeding of women; EARLY MARRIAGE;
the various taboos or practices which prevent women from controlling their own
fertility; nutritional taboos and traditional birth practices; son preference
and its implications for the status of the girl child; female infanticide; early pregnancy; and dowry price.
Despite their harmful nature and
their violation of international human rights laws, such practices persist
because they are not questioned and take on an aura of morality in the eyes of
those practicing them....
(NOTE: most of these are
practiced by the Islamic world).
...Child marriage robs a
girl of her childhood-time necessary to develop physically, emotionally and
psychologically. In fact, early marriage inflicts great emotional stress as the
young woman is removed from her parents' home to that of her husband and
in-laws. Her
husband, who will invariably be many years her senior, will have little in
common with a young teenager. It is with this strange man that she has to
develop an intimate emotional and physical relationship. She is obliged to have
intercourse, although physically she might not be fully developed....
...Health complications
that result from early marriage in the Middle East and North Africa, for
example, include the risk of operative delivery, low weight and malnutrition
resulting from frequent pregnancies and lactation in the period of life when the
young mothers are themselves still growing....
The work of the
Committee has also permitted the identification of certain areas where law
reform should be undertaken, in both civil and penal areas, such as the minimum
age for marriage and establishment of the age of criminal responsibility as
being the attainment of puberty. Some States have argued that girls attain
their physical maturity earlier, but it
is the view of the Committee that maturity cannot simply be identified with
physical development when social and mental development are lacking and that,
on the basis of such criteria, girls are considered adults before the law upon
marriage, thus being deprived of the comprehensive protection ensured by
the Convention on the Rights of the Child. The International Conference on
Population and Development, held at
Early pregnancy
can have harmful consequences for both young mothers and their babies.
According to UNICEF, no girl should
become pregnant before the age of 18 because she is not yet physically ready to
bear children. Babies of mothers
younger than 18 tend to be born premature and have low body weight; such babies
are more likely to die in the first year of life. The risk to the young mother's own health is
also greater. Poor health is common among indigent pregnant and lactating
women. ...
An additional health risk to young mothers is
obstructed labor, which occurs when the baby's head is too big for the orifice
of the mother. This provokes vesicovaginal fistulas,
especially when an untrained traditional birth attendant forces the baby's head
out unduly....
Generally
throughout the developing world, the average food intake of pregnant and
lactating mothers is far below that of the average male. Cultural practices,
including nutritional taboos, ensure that pregnant women are deprived of
essential nutriments, and as a result they tend to suffer from iron and protein
deficiencies...." - http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu6/2/fs23.htm
UNITED NATIONS
Even if Osama tries to claim that it is wrong to judge by modern standards, scientific standards have proven that no matter what time period, this early marriage to a young girl, following Muhammad’s example is detrimental to her health. So Muhammad’s perfect example, whether back then or now is still wrong based on scientific findings!!! Remember this next time when you see Muslims try and appeal to science to verify Islam. The Quran claims about Muhammad:
Surely in the Messenger of God you have a good example. 33:21
This is echoed by this Muslim site on Muhammad’s perfect example:
A. Prophet Muhammad
r was an inspired
man with an extraordinary personality.
He was gifted with mighty powers of imagination, elevation of mind, delicacy
and refinement of feeling. His intellectual qualities were extra ordinary. He
had a quick apprehension, a retentive memory, a vivid imagination and an inventive genius. Pure-hearted and beloved in his circle, he
was of sweet and gentle disposition. He set a shining example to his people. His character was pure and stainless. The real cause of his many marriages at an
old age was charity, and in order to protect the widows of his persecuted
followers…
D. The Prophet r was endowed with great
words of wisdom and teachings. The words that he uttered are not the words
of an ordinary man. The Hâdîth , the body of transmitted actions and sayings of the
Prophet r conveys precious information. The practical character of his teachings gave
birth to the scientific spirit. His teachings are simple, comprehensive and
original. They remained in their
original purity. Everything in the
teachings and postulates of Islâm is in its proper
place. All its parts are
harmoniously conceived to complement and support each other; nothing is
superfluous and nothing is lacking with the result of an absolute balance and
solid composure. The dicta of the Prophet in all matters of law and religion were
inspired and suggested by Allâh I , though expressed in his own words. Every word the Prophet r uttered was inspired by
E. Prophet Muhammad r is the greatest educator of mankind. - http://www.wefound.org/texts/Muhammad_files/Muhammad1.htm
So Allah’s good example is following cultural norms that are detrimental to your health! So according to Osama’s explanation since we must judge Muhammad based on his culture and nobody really found anything wrong with his marriage to Aisha, even though medical science proves other wise then:
1. Can we smoke cigarettes since it is a cultural norm and nobody says anything against it?
Did Muhammad's people and
culture benefit from establishing this practice? No.
Muhammad proclaimed himself as a guide and a light for his followers
however millions of Muslim girls have been subjected to this harmful practice. Where was the light, guidance or wisdom in
this practice? It was nothing more than
a cultural practice, instituted by Muhammad as part of Islam then
scientifically turns out to be destructive.
But because it was good enough for Muhammad, it is good enough for
Muslims; many of their female children suffer as a result?
CONCLUSION:
Osama Abdallah
has thoroughly embarrassed himself with his claims about Song of Songs 7:2. He
tries to defend Muhammad by saying his actions were nothing more than the
cultural norm. Then he contradicts himself and tries to judge the Bible based
on his standards, which happen to be modern but says that we shouldn’t do this
with Muhammad! Such lies and inconsistencies are worthless to say the least.
Osama continues with his diatribes:
Here is what the gospel of porn metaphorically says about cock
sucking:
Song of Songs 1:2-4
"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more
delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your
name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me
away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We
rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., cum)
more than wine. How right they are to adore you! "
Proverbs 7:18 "Come,
let's drink (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is) deep of love till
morning; let's enjoy ourselves with love!"
Song of Songs 5:4 "I
slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: 'Open to me, my
sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched
with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night.' I have taken
off my robe (i.e., he showed his cock to her) must I put it on again?
I have washed my feet, must I soil them again? My lover thrust his hand
through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him."
My answer to him: No!! Cum all over your gospel of porn
buddy. She'll love licking it.
So basically in the first two examples Osama believes that the word “love” is the word “cum”. Did he get this from a Hebrew expert too? Notice that he had to add (i.e. cum) into the verses and then claim it metaphorically says things about “cock sucking” and “cum”. So let’s do the same thing with the Quran using Osama’s metaphorical claim:
LOVE = CUM according to Osama’s theory.
2:195
And spend of your substance in the cause of Allah, and make not your own hands
contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth
[hubb] (i.e., cum) those
who do good. [al-muhasneen]
3:134 Those who spend (freely),
whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all)
men; -- for Allah loves [hubb] (i.e., cum) those
who do good; -- [al-muhasaneen]
3:148 And Allah gave them a reward
in this world, and the excellent reward of the Hereafter. For Allah loveth [hubb] (i.e., cum) those who do good. [al-muhasaneen]
5:14 But because of their breach of
their Covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: They change
the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the Message that
was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them -- barring a few -- ever bent
on [new] deceits: But forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): For Allah
loveth [hubb] (i.e., cum) those who are kind. [al-muhasaneen]
5:96 On those who believe and do
deeds of righteousness there is no blame for what they ate (in the past), when
they guard themselves from evil, and believe, and do deeds of righteousness, --
(or) again, guard themselves from evil and believe, -- (or) again, guard
themselves from evil and do good. For Allah loveth
[hubb] (i.e., cum) those who do good.
[al-muhasaneen]
So here since the word “love” metaphorically means (i.e., cum) we see that Allah
1. Cums on those who do good
2. Cums on those who are kind to one another
3. Cums on those who guard themselves from evil, etc.
Man! Allah is surely sexually active to say the least. The word "hubb" carries a much more intense meaning and is used in its other grammatical forms for "beloved," "sweetheart," "courtship," "lover," and "mutual affection." It is one of the 99 names of Allah. Since Osama thinks that “love” metaphorically means “CUM” WE WOULD HAVE TO CONCLUDE THAT ONE OF THE 99 NAMES OF ALLAH IS CUM! If he tries to give us an Arabic word study, we would reject it since the word for “love” in the OT doesn’t mean the word “cum” anyway. Let’s continue using Osama’s theory against the Quran:
DRINK = CUM according to Osama’s theory.
[7.31] O children of Adam! attend to your embellishments at every time of prayer, and eat and drink (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is) and be not extravagant; surely He does not love the extravagant.
[9.19] What! do you make (one who undertakes) the giving of drink (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is) to the pilgrims and the guarding of the Sacred Mosque like him who believes in Allah and the latter day and strives hard in Allah's way? They are not equal with Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[15.22] And We send the winds fertilizing,
then send down water from the cloud so We give it to you to drink (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is) of, nor is it you who store it up.
[16.10] He it is Who sends down water from the cloud for you; it gives drink, (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is) and by it (grow) the trees upon which you pasture.
[16.66] And most surely there is a lesson for you in the cattle; We give you to drink (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is) of what is in their bellies-- from betwixt the feces and the blood-- pure milk, easy and agreeable to swallow for those who drink (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is) .
I could keep going. So according to
Osama’s insane theory when one “drinks” he is drinking cum we would have to
conclude that:
1. At every prayer Allah told the children of Adam to (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is)
2. That when Allah lets it rain it pours down for the people to (i.e., drink and swallow cum that is)
3. That the milky drink from
cattle is like (i.e., drink and swallow
cum that is) (Wow
this one hits home I guess!)
These should be efficient enough to
prove the stupidity of adding () to words that don’t carry those meanings.
Osama Abdallah has done a very good job of destroying
his credibility. He finishes by saying this:
My answer to him: No!! Cum all over your gospel of porn
buddy. She'll love licking it.
Another Checkmate!
They
wrote:
My
response:
I just find it very cute
that they both signed their names, right next to each others, when they wrote
their pornographic article. LOOLLLL :-).
Since Osama Abdallah
is so fascinated with “Cum” then we have some goodies for him. And trust me, he
isn’t going to like it:
"The
apostle of Allah fell ill. He was bewitched about women and food....
There were eleven knots [in the hair from the comb]. The two Surahs no. 113, and 114 were revealed to him. No sooner did
the apostle of Allah recited a verse than a knot loosened. When all of them
were loosened, he regained his urge for food and women." (Ibn Sa'd's "Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir" (Book of the Major Classes), volume 2,, pg. 247)
This quote is commenting on the Hadith here:
From the Hadith of Bukhari, Volume 7, #
660.
Narrated Aisha:
MAGIC WAS WORKED ON ALLAH'S APOSTLE
so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he
actually had not (Sufyan said: THAT IS THE HARDEST
KIND OF MAGIC as it has such an effect).
Then one day he said, "O 'Aisha do you know that
Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came
to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one
near my head asked the other. What is wrong with this man?' The latter replied
the is under the effect of magic The first one asked, Who has worked magic on
him?' The other replied Labid bin Al-A'sam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.'
The first one asked, What material did he use)?' The other replied, 'A comb and
the hair stuck to it.' The first one asked, 'Where (is that)?' The other
replied. 'In a skin of pollen of a male date palm tree kept under a stone in
the well of Dharwan' '' So the Prophet went to that
well and took out those things and said "That was the well which was shown
to me (in a dream) Its water looked like the infusion of Henna leaves and its
date-palm trees looked like the heads of devils." The Prophet added,
"Then that thing was taken out' I said (to the Prophet ) "Why do you
not treat yourself with Nashra?" He said,
"Allah has cured me; I DISLIKE TO LET EVIL SPREAD AMONG MY PEOPLE."
This Tradition is also found in Bukhari 4.490, 7.658,
7.660, 7.661, 8.89, 8:400.
If Muhammad thought he was having sex and he wasn’t, this means that he was off somewhere having sex with himself!!! So let’s break it down for you:
1. Muhammad would expose his private parts for sexual intercourse
2.
He would go through all the motions to have sex
3.
When he was finished HE WOULD CUM (in the words
of Mr. Abdallah)
The problem with this matter is that HE WASN’T HAVING SEX WITH A WOMAN BUT WITH HIMSELF, SO IT WOULD BE LOGICAL TO CONCLUDE THAT MUHAMMAD WOULD CUM ALL OVER HIMSELF! No wonder why his companions looked at this as being the hardest magic of all! Now why is Osama Abdallah so obsessed with semen? Well it appears that semen seems to run hand and hand (No pun intended) with Muhammad:
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 231:
Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:
I asked 'Aisha about the clothes
soiled with semen. She replied, "I
used to wash it off THE CLOTHES OF ALLAH’S APOSTLE and he would go for the
prayer while water spots were still visible. "
Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2161:
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
I and the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him)
used to lie in one cloth at night while I was menstruating. If anything from me smeared him, he washed the same place (that was smeared),
and did not wash beyond it. If anything
from him smeared his clothe, he washed the same place and did not wash
beyond that, and prayed with it (i.e. the clothe).
Look at this for a second. We have Aisha, Muhammad’s baby wife washing his clothes filled with
“cum” before going to prayer! Oh and let’s not forget the fact that Muhammad
loved lying on Aisha’s clothes when she was
menstruating! He would even be smeared by her menstrual fluids! What is even
more funnier than this is the fact that the Sunnah
records Muhammad’s companions having orgies with themselves during the recitation
of the Quran:
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 135:
Narrated
Jabir:
We used to practice coitus interruptus
during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle.
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 136:
Narrated Jabir:
We used to practice coitus interruptus while the Quran was being revealed. Jabir
added: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's
Apostle while the Quran was being Revealed.
These maniacs were “masturbating” or
“spilling their cum” after having sex with female captives, etc. while Muhammad
was revealing the Holy Quran! How fantastic; just
imagine for a while, the recitation of the Holy Scripture and the spilling of
seed! What a great combination. This may even beat the chanting of
As you can see, Osama Abdallah has opened himself and his religion to ridicule,
he doesn’t know the Hebrew word for vagina and he failed to address the
“Arabic” terms used in the Quran for this word also.
We will continue to monitor this topic. Stay tune.
Quennel Gale at queball20@yahoo.com