Here we will discuss, Osama Abdallah's misunderstading of Rape in Christianty. He is desperate in his attempts to discredit the bible and he will even stoop to dumb accusations like this matter to continue in his superficial endeavors. Here I will post responses from Nick, a Jew, who isn't a Christian, who embarrassed Osama and his inability in trying to teach us what the Bible says. I will also offer my commentary.
A10- Rape is a big crime that could actually take the woman's or the victim's life away. Let us examine how Christianity deals with the rapist: "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)" Although this Verse from the Bible only talks about virgins, but its the only verse in the entire Bible that talks about raping single women. Not to be biased or anything, but the Bible seems to have quite weird things in it that are quite irrational and quite ridiculous. Deuteronomy 22:28 forces the raped woman to marry her rapist. My question to the writers of the Bible is why in the world would any raped female victim want to be in the same town, not the same bedroom !! with her rapist?.
Nick: Osama read properly [dealing with the] Bible verse: "HE must marry the girl" HE and not SHE!!! This is [the] privalege of [the] girl [to] demand marriage. She or her father can refuse to marry read EX 22:17.
Quennel: Lets look at Exodus 22:17 from the JPS bible, (Jewish translation which is much better then NIV) since we are dealing with a Jewish answer:
We see that Nick has exposed Osama and his lack of knowledge of the Bible based on this verse. Ladies and Gentlemen this is the type of misinformation that is ever present on Muslim websites like Osama's. They know absolutely nothing about the Bible.
Also, the Bible seems to promote raping of single women: "But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:25)" This is quite an interesting verse. We see in Deuteronomy 22:28 that if a man rapes a single woman then she will be forced to be his wife, while if a man rapes a married woman in Deuteronomy 22:25, then he shall be put to death. There is absolutely no punishment for the rapist of a single woman in the Bible.
Quennel: I will let Nick respond to this and I will respond to the Christian part.
Nick: First of all, [the] raper should pay 50 shekals of silver (quite big amount of money) - Dueteronomy 22:28. Then girl can demand him marriag and he could NEVER DIVORCE HER (note HE and not SHE), if she will refuse to marry, then raper should pay money that [is] used to write Ketuba- marriage contract - Ex 22:17 (in modern Israel it's for example average is about 100 - 200 thousand $).
Quennel: If you look at what the Israeli currency is worth in U.S. dollar amounts, ($.30 for each dollar) that means the average paid out by the rapist would be between 30 - 60 thousand dollars U.S.!!!! That is a large sum of money and it amazing that God would force the criminal to pay while the U.S. and Islam don't mention any type of compensation for the victim. Again, another one of Osama's lies exposed for all to see. In fact lets look at the scripture references for themselves to see how Yahweh God hates rape:
This going along with Exodus 22:17 proves that Osama's theory about no punishment in the bible is the figment of his imagination. He doesn't even know what the bible says so how can he tell us that there is no punishment for rape in the Bible? Is it because he doesn't know anything that he is talking about? Yes.
Quennel: This is the part that I will address. For one thing Osama builds a strawman in claiming that Christians said that they shouldn't follow the O.T. Then he continues by claiming that the N.T. doesn't talk anything about marrying your sister, etc. Since Christians obviously know more of what Jesus said than Osama, we follow the O.T. and because we follow the O.T. there is no need for the N.T. to repeat every single command for us. We aren't stupid and we can easily read, unlike some people who use stupid approaches in examining the bible, much like our friend Osama. Christians aren't allowed to marry their sister or brother because we follow Jesus who is the fullfillment of the Jewish Law. If Osama picks up a bible and read it instead of posting text out of content he would easily see this. This is stuff Christians learn in Sunday school when they are kids, howver since Muslims don't know anything about Christianity, Osama hopes to play upon their ignorance by feeding them more misinformation.
Another small example that shows the weird things in the Bible is the following: "If a man takes a wife and, after laying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, 'I married this woman but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,' then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof [how do you think they would do that?] that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity.' Then her parents shall display the cloth [the father would literally stick his two fingers covered with a piece of cloth into his daughter's vagina before she gets married and keep that bloody cloth for as long as his daughter is married] with before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:13-18)" I know very well that the Iraqi and Iranian and Egyptian Jews do it. The father sticks his two fingers into his daughter's vagina covered in a piece of cloth and then he goes outside and shows everyone that she is virgin by displaying the bloody cloth before his daughter's actual marriage in few hours.
Nick: This is [the] most disgusting false [thing], that I've heard in my life! You are really sick, IF YOU MAKE UP SUCH THINGS!!!
Quennel: You see how Osama is trying to put false accusations on the Bible! He is trying to tell Nick something about Jewish culture when for one he can't even speak a sentence of Hebrew, and when he doesn't even present any credible reference to back up this slanderous claim. If this was such truth Osama why no reference? Is it because you can't find one and you had to make this up as Nick exposed you of? Yes. My dear reader, if the Muslim can't furnish you any credible information to back up their claims then please laugh and keep going becaus like this, most of their accusations are nothing more than mere misinformation.
Nick: Tell me please Osama, why Allah starts his own book with "In the Name of Allah"????
Quennel: As we see again, Nick has exposed Osama's great theories about the Bible not being a book inspired by God. For example, why would Allah have to write his book in this way as well as use third person references when he is supposedly only the ONE GOD as Islam claims? Lets look at some examples:
It doesn't take a genius to see that this truely can't be from Allah. Osama says "And Moses" etc, but yet Surah 1 says the same thing with Allah. Would he know say that this isn't from God? Using his own criteria against him, he woul have to. Look at more of the highlighted parts. Since Muslims believe that the Quran is totally from Allah using this metholodgy we are forced to conclude that Allah is worshipping another Allah and that Allah needs another god named Allah to show him the straight path. If this isn't the case then the Quran isn't totally written by Allah but by men. More examples of the Quran not being given by Allah is seen here:
We must wonder is Allah coming down because he was commanded by Muhammad's lord. If so is there anther Allah that we don't know about? If we use Osama's metholodgy we are to believe that this isn't inspired by God. If this isn't Allah coming down at the command of another one called Allah then these are the words of men and angels which debunks Islamic idea of all the Quran coming from just God alone.
Osama assumes what he has yet to prove, namely that the Quran is not Muhammad's words but God's. The claim of inspiration in and of itself does not prove inspiration. Nor does the fact that an inspired author of scripture that never explicitly claimed inspiration deny that he was speaking God's words to man.
Furthermore, it is not true that the Quran contains nothing but the words of God since there are several places where it is clearly not God who is speaking:
The question begs to be asked if God is speaking who then is the Lord that he serves? If it is the angels or Muhammad speaking, then the Quran cannot be considered 100% the word of God. Using Osama's method this is exactly what we find.
Punishment for rape in Islam
The following information was sent to me by brother Shahid Bin Waheed; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.
Let us look at how Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him dealt with the rapists:
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:
"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet
(peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She
shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to
me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to
me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and
brought him to her.
She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.
He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.
He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366)"
UsSalaamu Alaikum dear brother Osama
I pray that you receive this with great Imaan and in good health. I like to contribute this for the website, it is an authentic ruling of Islamic Shariah about [The Punishment of Rape in Islaam]. It also quash the notion of enemies of Islaam about the women witness because it clearly proves the importance of a SINGLE woman witness [which decide the fate of man's life] which man don't have in any religion.
A RAPE IN ISLAAM
The following quote, from the book "Role of Muslim Women in Society" by Afzalur
Rahman (Seerah Foundation, London, 1986),specifically addresses the issue of _rape_ (as
opposed to adultery):
During the time of the Prophet, _Hudud_ punishment was inflicted on the person who committed adultery on the evidence of the woman who was raped by him. It is reported by Wa'il ibn Hujr that a woman went out in the time of the Prophet to go to prayer, and a man who met her attacked her and got his desire of her. She shouted and he went off, and when a company of the _Muhajirun_ came by, she said: "That man did such-and-such to me." They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for Allah has forgiven you," but of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)
This tradition leaves absolutely no doubt of the validity of the evidence of women in _hudud_ cases. It establishes, first, that in a case of rape, the solitary evidence of the raped woman, in the absence of their evidence, is considered sufficient to convict the rapist of the crime; and second, that the evidence of women is admissable in _hudud_ cases, and that there are no plausible grounds not to admit their evidence in the Islamic Shari`ah.
In the light of the above hadith, in answer to the original question, it shows that the evidence of a *single* person, the female victim, can be sufficient to convict someone of rape according to the teachings of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.)....
The whole confusion over the rape issue to me seems to be that when people ask about rape, all the answers that are given relate to _adultery_. _Rape_ and _adultery_ are very different things, since in adultery usually both people are consensual, whereas in the case of rape the woman is an unwilling victim. To blindly apply the Islamic rules for adultery for the case of rape to me seems to be completely absurd and totally unjust, particularly when the above hadith demonstrates that the situation for rape is different than that for adultery.
To prove a case of adultery, usually you require four eye-witnesses who saw the act of coitus, except in the special case of when one spouse is accusing another, when if the accused swears innocence the innocence is accepted, as taught in the Qur'an. For the case of _rape_, however, the above hadith demonstrates quite graphically that _four witnesses are not required_, and therefore the case of rape is _different_ from adultery.
Of course, a bit of sensible thinking also clearly shows why blindly applying the laws for adultery to the case of rape is unjust.... Unfortunately, though, many Muslims seem to see no problem with applying the laws of adultery to rape!
I wonder about to what extent such people have really thought about the issue....
Nick: Hahaha, right now you blamed [the] Bible, that it doesn't give punishment for rape (and I showed you that it is not [the] truth) but YOU COULDN'T FIND PUNISHMENT FOR RAPE IN THE QURAN AND [now] BROUGHT SOME HADITH!!! QURAN IS A BOOK, THAT DOESN'T GIVE ANY PUNISHMENT FOR RAPE!
Quennel: Osama's challenge was that there was no punishment for rape in the Bible, what he fells to state to his reader is the simple fact that the Hadith is his only source for providing any punishment for this matter!!! Notice the hypocracy and the change in tone when it came to Islam. Even the Hadiths he use, are considered weak and he wouldn't even accept them if they put up a particular argument against Islam. The Hadith literature was composed 200 years after the death of Muhammad. That means the earliest source that Osama can come up with comes after the fact. One must wonder why he could only find one Hadith quote and then had to rely on a book to aid in his arguments. Notice that there are no quotes from Bukhari or Muslim, which are considered the most authentic Hadiths in Islam!!! Why Osama. And most importantly, why you couldn't even find a single verse in the Quran dealing with this matter? Does Allah believe that rape of women is not important to address? Seems like it. Lets look at how Muhammad looked at women from Osama's own Hadiths and his book the Quran:
Here we see that not only did
Muhammad receive a fifth of the plunder, but also women of his choice
to cohabit with.
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 19, #2991:
Anas said:
“A beautiful slave girl
fell to Dihyah. The apostle purchased her for seven slaves. He
then gave her to Umm Sulaim for decoration her and preparing her for
marriage.”
Muhammad was so captivated
by this woman's beauty that he gave up seven slaves for her! This serves
to debunk the Muslim myth that Islam came to set slaves free, whereas
Christianity drove men into slavery.
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 19, #2992:
Anas said:
Captives were gathered
at Khaibar. Dihyah came and said, “apostle, give me a slave girl form
the captives.” He said, “Go and take a slave girl.” He took Safiyyah.
A man then came to the prophet and said: “You gave Safiyyah chief lady
of Quraizah and al-Nadir to Dihyah?” This is according to the version
of Yaqub. Then the agreed version goes: “She is worthy of you.” He (Muhammad)
said, “Call him along with her.” When the prophet looked at her,
he said to him: “Take another slave girl from the captives.” The prophet
then set her free and married her.
And,
Narrated ‘Abdul ‘Aziz:
Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet. He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, ‘Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, ‘Muhammad (has come).’ (Some of our companions added, “With his army.”) We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, ‘O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.’ The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Allah's Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.’ So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, ‘Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.’ Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her.”
Thabit asked Anas, “O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?” He said, “Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her.” Anas added, “While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet. So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, ‘Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.’ He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle.” (Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367)
The Hadith shows how Muhammad was so fascinated with women until he couldn't even control himself as shown above. Osama can't find a single verse talking against rape in the Quran, the reason why is because women are nothing more than sex object in the sight of Allah and the Quran:
Even more astonishing is this description:
Ibn Kathir, one of Islam's premiere commentators, notes:
To imagine that God would reveal such a verse, wherein he would actually say that in paradise one will find women who literally have firm breasts is incredulous.
The idea of having sexual relations in Paradise has led some Muslims to interpret these passages metaphorically. This in turn has prompted the assumption that the description is merely a poetic attempt to describe that which is indescribable.
Unfortunately for these scholars, Muhammad will not allow for such an interpretation. In Sahih Muslim, no. 6793 and 6794, we are told:
According to Ibn Kathir's commentary on S. 56:35-37, a Muslim will be given seventy specially created females with two of his earthly wives, for a total of seventy-two maidens in Paradise.
In Mishkat Al-Masabih, Muhammad indicates:
Even more amazing is this statement from Muhammad:
An editorial footnote to Ibn Kathir’s translation indicates that the word dahman means intercourse done with such "shove and disturbance." (Ibid.)
Finally, the Quran speaks of women as tillage that one can plow into anyway they choose:
"Your women are a tillage for you, so go to your tillage as you will." S. 2:223
According to some Muslim sources, this verse was revealed to condone anal sex:
Narrated Jabir:
Jews used to say: "If one has sexual intercourse with his wife from the back, then she will deliver a squint-eyed child." So this Verse was revealed:-
"‘Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth when or how you will.’ (2.223)" (Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 51)
Need we say more? Men can plow into women anyway they choose, which explains why Hajj Allah doesn't talk about any verse dealing with rape. Muhammad killed many men and married their wives so why should Allah have anything to say about it. We see that Osama's idea of rape in the bible is flawed and we see that he can't provide a single verse showing that the Quran talks against it. Nick a Jewish friend of us both exposed him and it is very embarrasing to say that least that a guy like this is trying to teach Christians and Jews what the Bible says. Osama looks good to ignorant Muslims but however you will never see his site proclaimed anywhere over the internet.
Osama's link discussed is here: Question #10 Rape in Islam and Christianity
